Juan Viejo2

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Posts by Juan Viejo2

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  38

  Watchtower BREAKDOWN on the highway to Paradise

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  all of us at one time or another have owned a automobile that was a real lemon!.

  the car may have been shiny, stylish and totally cool-looking....the only problem was it was a piece of crap.. repair after repair after repair in a never ending spiral of maintenance kept it in the shop more than it was on the road!.

  you may have really loved that car--it might have been a classic---but--it proved to be totally useless for basic transportation because:.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Terry = PM #2
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  38

  Watchtower BREAKDOWN on the highway to Paradise

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  all of us at one time or another have owned a automobile that was a real lemon!.

  the car may have been shiny, stylish and totally cool-looking....the only problem was it was a piece of crap.. repair after repair after repair in a never ending spiral of maintenance kept it in the shop more than it was on the road!.

  you may have really loved that car--it might have been a classic---but--it proved to be totally useless for basic transportation because:.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Terry = PM
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  96

  Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org

  by eric356 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ive been thinking about the future of the watchtower organization and the challenges it faces in coming decades.

  its difficult to address the issue without allowing personal feelings affect the analysis.

  many people seem to think that the society will collapse fairly soon, based mostly on the fact that the person dislikes the leadership or cant understand how others can believe the doctrine.

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  Juan Viejo2

  eric356 - you have a PM
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  6

  Sebastian Ramos case: Prosecutor appeals to Supreme Court of Justice

  by TJ Curioso in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the link below will find the documents submitted by the prosecutor in the state of ceara, brazil calling upon legal advice that the case of discrimination against the elders of jehovah's witnesses, is scanned again and taken to the supreme court in brasilia.. .

  the ex-witnesses are thrilled with what this may mean the national level as well as the possible coverage which may be either part of the media.. .

  even if the appeal is without effect, a giant step was taken in the search for the criminalization of a religious body that causes much pain and humiliation to those who leave or forced to free and spontaneous will.. .

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  Juan Viejo2

  Thank you DGP. That does seem to make things a little clearer. I will try to find more information about this issue and maybe give it a write-up on Ex-JW.com. It seems that's what these people want, because they keep sending me their comments and other documents in Portuguese. Some have partial translations, but as I said, they are basically unintelligible. Your translations are much clearer and provide a lot more information.

  Thanks again.

  JV
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  6

  Sebastian Ramos case: Prosecutor appeals to Supreme Court of Justice

  by TJ Curioso in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the link below will find the documents submitted by the prosecutor in the state of ceara, brazil calling upon legal advice that the case of discrimination against the elders of jehovah's witnesses, is scanned again and taken to the supreme court in brasilia.. .

  the ex-witnesses are thrilled with what this may mean the national level as well as the possible coverage which may be either part of the media.. .

  even if the appeal is without effect, a giant step was taken in the search for the criminalization of a religious body that causes much pain and humiliation to those who leave or forced to free and spontaneous will.. .

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  Juan Viejo2

  I've gotten a lot of leads on this case, many directly from someone claiming to be Sebastian Ramos. Unfortunately, much of the text explaining the background, activity, and status is is such broken English that it makes no sense to me.

  Can someone give me a better synopsis of what is going on in Brazil and how serious the uprising among JWs really is?

  This could be very big. If it was in the USA, Canada, or the EU everyone would have their ears tuned to, but being in South America, it has tended to lose the attention of the greater crown of ex-other sheep.

  JV
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  17

  Menlo Park Kingdom Hall - Part Deux

  by Juan Viejo2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this message is important!

  timing is critical!.

  those of you who have read my previous postings about the lawsuit over the remodel and potential sale of the menlo park, california kingdom hall are aware that i have been trying desperately to contact someone in the area who can help me get more information on this case.. .

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  Juan Viejo2

  Sweeney,

  These brothers want the word to get out, and hopefully draw some financial and legal assistance, but they are reluctant to go to the press or other media to try to win their case. They want to try the case in court, before an impartial judge and a jury that is likely to give them a fair hearing. Newspapers and local media often misreport a case such as this. This is the kind of case that needs to be put in historical perspective so that the public understands the facts behind their filing the complaint.

  Let's face it, who really knows who owns a church? Do you have any idea who owns the local Baptist Church? What about that beautiful historic church with the tall white steeple that is considered a local landmark? Who owns St. Paul's Cathedral. Who owns the Saddleback Chapel?

  The reality is that most Protestant denominations are made up of lots of local churches that are controlled and owned by a local non-profit corporation (just as Kingdom Halls have been in the past). All decisions are made by local boards of directors as to what expansion will take place, how much to contribute toward the missionary work, who to invite to speak to the congregation, and how much to pay that person, if anything at all. They hire and fire their pastors and support staff. They provide benefits to the clergy and other employees. They are run very much like any non-profit corporation. Although they may belong to a national headquarters association, synod or particular denomination, they are for the most part independent.

  That's how it was for Kingdom Halls until just a few years ago. And yet the Watchtower has convinced most of its followers that it owns all those properties - that it has the power to appoint or remove elders - that it can order the sale of any property.

  The Bonham, TX scandal of the mid-80s proved that the Watchtower can not claim ownership of all Kingdom Halls. Although the case took years to finally work its way through the courts, the local brothers finally won and kept the building. By the time the case was over, however, most of the complaintants had either been disfellowshipped or left on their own. The Society did build a new KH a few miles away and basically abandoned their pursuit of the older building except in the appeals courts. They lost that case, but there were no real winners.

  In my second article, hopefully online by the first of next week, I will point out that until the Society appointed a new Circuit Overseer there apparently never been any serious issues at that Hall. The elder body was made up of longtime brothers. The congregation had been fruitful, bringing many new converts into the Watchtower's version of the "Truth." I have not heard of any scandals from the past that would indicate that any of the elders had ever tried to go out on their own, or had ever stood in defiance of the Society or its teachings.

  Within a year of the appointment of the new Circuit Overseer, these brothers were being accused of various actions against the Society. Mountains were made of molehills. Changes in the local Hall were not suggested, they were ordered. The brothers were purposefully embarrassed and accused of wrongdoing, mostly through gossip and innuendo.

  The public press, for the most part, does not really understand the backroom dealings of Jehovah's Witnesses. If the Catholic Church "owns" all its churches, why wouldn't the Watchtower "own" all its Kingdom Halls. They don't understand that when the Watchtower "loans" contruction funds to build Kingdom Hall, they expect to be paid back by the local brothers, dollar for dollar, and expect the labor to be performed by volunteers. In many cases the land has been donated. All work and fund are eventually provided by the local brothers, but the Watchtower - upon full payment of the loan - then takes ownership of a valuable piece of property. The local brothers have nothing under their ownership or control.

  Now if I'm wrong about this, I welcome anyone on this board who is, or has been a recent elder, to please correct my understanding.

  In any case, the press would not understand that most of the older KHs were actually owned locally and that the WT HQ has no legal rights or ownership of them - but they are acting as if they did and no one is stopping them. Except Bonham and now Menlo Park.
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  17

  Menlo Park Kingdom Hall - Part Deux

  by Juan Viejo2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this message is important!

  timing is critical!.

  those of you who have read my previous postings about the lawsuit over the remodel and potential sale of the menlo park, california kingdom hall are aware that i have been trying desperately to contact someone in the area who can help me get more information on this case.. .

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  Juan Viejo2

  BTW - I am in the SF Bay area for the next few days dealing with that "family issue" I referred to.

  If anyone in that area would like to meet with me privately to offer more information, please email or PM me. I have gas and money for coffee or lunch.

  JV

  contact@ex-jw.com
• 
  17

  Menlo Park Kingdom Hall - Part Deux

  by Juan Viejo2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this message is important!

  timing is critical!.

  those of you who have read my previous postings about the lawsuit over the remodel and potential sale of the menlo park, california kingdom hall are aware that i have been trying desperately to contact someone in the area who can help me get more information on this case.. .

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  Juan Viejo2

  For anyone interested, there is an article expanding on this event at www.ex-jw.com. There will be more coming soon, but I am still doing research and fact checking - and am having to deal with a family issue.

  I look forward to your comments.

  The good folks in Menlo Park look forward to your support.

  JV

  http://ex-jw.com/takeover-in-menlo-park-part-one
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  31

  Find your old Assembly Hall...

  by Hecklerboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was doing some investigation on google maps for a trip i'm making to pittsburgh, pa next week.. come to find out the the place i'm going is only a few mile from the assembly hall i spent allot of time at as a kid.

  looking at this pictures bring back allot of memories.

  some good, some bad.. anybody else attend this assembly hall in coraopolis, pa?.

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  Juan Viejo2

  White Dove - you have a PM
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  45

  Video of Public Talk

  by Pig in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for those interested in jehovahs witnesses or those wanting to return to the kindom hall, this video is to give you a realistic look at what goes on at the meetings.

  enjoy.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxmjm0muvvs.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Pig - you have a PM